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I believe I know what is going on

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Sunrise
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I believe I know what is going on

Post by Sunrise on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:33 am

Reading the blog from Telnic gives a good insight about the Telnic position:
http://tel-names.tumblr.com/post/47009477338/the-evolution-of-the-smart-phone-and-beyond
Telnic doesn’t think about detectable websites.
Instead Telnic thinks only about fast access of contact information after the website was detected by a user.
I get the felling Telnic is fine with selling only a few thousands domains.
Telnic concentrates only on very basic features and expects other companies to deliver all other add-ons.
This includes especially a directory that would enable users to find Telnames websites on the internet.
The reason why Telnic doesn’t communicate with anybody anymore must be that Telnic has fixed their strategy for the next years.
In detail Telnic keeps sales and expenses low, hopes for a company liking the Telnames websites and let them do the rest.
Since Telnic reduced the expenses to a minimum, probably Telnic can survive for many years without any significant sales.
If Telnic gets lucky, Telnic can make a fortune when another company takes over either the whole company or includes Telnames into another service.
Until then Telnic assumes no risks and can continue without having any stress for developing or adjusting their systems.
Conclusion:
We can get a website at Telname from Telnic (if you like to call 20 contact entries and limited text on one page a website).
Now we have to wait for another company delivering the search option to make a Telname detectable.
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Tim Spears
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by Tim Spears on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:06 am

If this is true, nobody will ever have a reason to buy anything from Telnic or Telnames.
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by mikeseaton on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:25 am

Sunrise wrote:Telnic doesn’t think about detectable websites.
Instead Telnic thinks only about fast access of contact information after the website was detected by a user.
I get the felling Telnic is fine with selling only a few thousands domains.
Telnic concentrates only on very basic features and expects other companies to deliver all other add-ons.
This includes especially a directory that would enable users to find Telnames websites on the internet.
@Sunrise - interesting analysis and you may well be right !

The problem is that Telnic's actions over the last couple of years (I really don't need to list them to forum members) has meant that their "ecosystem" has dwindled away to virtually nothing - see http://www.teltalk.org/t1048-how-many-tel-developers-are-left for what I mean !

I actually started laying the foundations for building a Tel Global Directory myself at the end of last year, but have now put the whole project on ice since there is no point in developing for a small market that shows every sign of shrinking still further.

I still have the Tel Search Engine I developed, but IMO that's as far as its worthwhile a developer going given the way Telnic is determined to drive customers away !

So yes they may be waiting for other organisations to develop the necessary software add-ons, but with the exception of Mark Kolb (and Dan Prather when Telpowered - due January 2013 - is finally launched) no-one is really interested any more !

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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by Telnot on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:40 am

Where is the problem? Telnic got your money with little effort in the years 2009 and 2010. And now Telnic gets a little bit less with almost no effort. Enough for Telnic to pay luxurious salaries!

Why should Telnic listen to you? Telnic doesn't have YOUR problem!

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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by maxi on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:48 am

Sunrise wrote:Since Telnic reduced the expenses to a minimum,
I think that they pay for too much the office rent. They need to find a cheaper place somewhere in the suburbs.

Expert wrote:Revenues:
250,000 .tel x $8 = $2,000,000


Expenses:
London office rent = $100,000
Server costs = $10,000
Neustar fees = $100,000
CEO salary = $1,000,000
About 5 directors' salaries = $500,000
About 10 employees' salaries = $700,000
Litigation = $200,000
Black hole = $4,390,000
Total = $7,000,000

Annual Loss:
Revenues ./. expenses = $5,000,000
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by mikeseaton on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:26 am

Telnot wrote:Where is the problem? Telnic got your money with little effort in the years 2009 and 2010. And now Telnic gets a little bit less with almost no effort. Enough for Telnic to pay luxurious salaries!

Why should Telnic listen to you? Telnic doesn't have YOUR problem!
AGREED - FOR NOW !

It always helps any business if you can start off with $35,000,000 of investors money in the bank, but by my calculation in the year 2016 the money will run out !

Couple that with the ending of the limited time agreement with ICANN allowing them to run the .tel extension, obviously available for renegotiation by Telnic Ltd., and you have a totally different scenario where large-scale domain registrations, and/or further shareholder investment, will be needed to keep the .tel project going.

Of course there could be a management buyout of Telnic Ltd. beforehand or alternatively a trade sale - but the idea that this loss-making setup can just continue as it currently is, year after year, is both fantasy and delusional !

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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by mikeseaton on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:45 am



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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by Toptel on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:52 am

mikeseaton wrote:some saw the problems facing .tel as far back as 2008 !
Nobody could foresee in 2008 that Telnic will cancel all work and withhold the most important improvements.
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by mikeseaton on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:56 am

!
Toptel wrote:
mikeseaton wrote:some saw the problems facing .tel as far back as 2008 !
Nobody could foresee in 2008 that Telnic will cancel all work and withhold the most important improvements.
That just added self-inflicted damage to the .tel project on top of the core issues identified in the 2008 article !

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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by Toptel on Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:21 pm

You can find tons of articles about .tel from before the launch.
They were all of the same opinion:
We Need A Separate Domain To Manage Our Contact Info?
from the you-cannot-be-serious dept


ICANN has certainly approved some weird top level domains lately. The only rationale for most of these is to force companies to register another set of domains to funnel more money to registrars... and back to ICANN as well. At least with .mobi there was a clear, if misguided and somewhat troublesome, rationale for it (the idea that we need a separate mobile internet). However, others seem to have no real purpose at all. Last year there was the approval of .jobs -- for companies to use to post job openings. Was there really any demand for this? Were companies having trouble posting jobs to their existing .com websites? Along the same lines, we now will have the .tel domain. There were competing proposals for this. Jeff Pulver's plan was to use .tel to map a phone number to a URL -- which could be valuable, but which the ENUM folks are trying to accomplish separately. So, instead, .tel has been awarded to be used as a domain for companies to post their contact info. Why is this needed? Were there really complaints that companies couldn't post their contact info on their existing website? The only purpose this serves is to force companies into buying these new domains to give money to the registrars. So, if the jobs page and the contact page now have separate domains, it's going to get pretty easy to start predicting what's next. Just look down any corporate website and pick out the major headings. Will we have a .products domain next? How about .news for press releases and news coverage? .aboutus for the about page? Or maybe .mgmt for the page about the company's management. Don't forget .support for the support pages, .partners for things about partners and .ir for the investor relations page. I'm sure there are more that people can come up with as well -- none of which are actually needed.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20050722/1158249.shtml

Get Ready To Pay Up Just To Let People Know How To Contact Your Company
from the a-total-waste dept


We've been plenty critical of plans to set up new top level domains for URLs. Each time there's an extension (such as adding .biz, .info, etc.), all it's really meant is that companies felt forced to cough up more money to secure domains they didn't need and wouldn't use. The whole thing is a fiddle-faddle. However, none is as ridiculous as the decision three years ago to add a ".tel" domain, where companies could put their contact info. Yes, apparently, some company convinced ICANN to extend the TLD space for .tel domains -- knowing that tons of companies would have to pay up, just to make sure there their contact info was at company.tel, rather than something like company.com/contact/.

While we hadn't heard much about .tel over the past few years, it looks like it's now set to get moving, as early registrations have opened up, and the one company (the registrar who is going to make all the cash for this) is encouraging companies to pay up. Companies will do so, of course, because they'll feel they need to protect their brand from others -- but they won't do so because it's useful. It's not as if anyone is having any trouble finding the "contact" forms on websites that have them. And, for companies that don't have easy to find contact forms, that's usually by choice -- so it's unlikely they'll suddenly rush to put up a .tel site. This whole process makes no sense, and ICANN, who orchestrated the whole thing, should be ashamed. Basically all it's done is create a totally unnecessary situation, where for no good reasons, a ton of companies have to hand over a bunch of money to Telnic.
http://www.techdirt.com/blog/company=htc25/?company=telnic

.tel as a website makes no sense!
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by ntervu on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 6:28 am

Forum members...

Personally, I believe that this discussion thread adds NO VALUE to the purpose of a TelCentric forum.

Every company and business has plans that change due to the economy or natural occurrences. At the end of the day, it is our responsibility as business people to update, re-plan and re-purpose our businesses to succeed.

After reviewing and following many of the threads on this forum, there appear to be a "Lot of Stones" being casted.

The forum should be a place:

1. to help persons with ideas for their .Tel's to flush them out based on the lessons learned from others.

2. for a business to share results from their efforts so that others may find new ways of positioning their endgames.

Real business leaders are NOT "Buying" .Tel domains, they are "Investing" in the capability of their business foundation.

So why spend time "Assuming" when we can spend time deploying.

Regards.








Last edited by ntervu on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added last line)


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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by GoTel on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 6:59 am

Get Ready To Pay Up Just To Let People Know How To Contact Your Company
from the a-total-waste dept


You mean like the hundreds of millions of businesses that use yellow pages globally?

Hmmm. Sounds like the total-waste dept is well-named!
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by Moonlight on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 7:59 am

GoTel wrote:
Get Ready To Pay Up Just To Let People Know How To Contact Your Company
from the a-total-waste dept


You mean like the hundreds of millions of businesses that use yellow pages globally?

Hmmm. Sounds like the total-waste dept is well-named!
This is the funny thing about .tel.
People talking about .tel (especially domainers) think the internet will stay the same as in the last 5 years.
Of course .tel doesn't fit into their minds, because .tel is different and isn't built on the historical concept of the internet.
But the internet today is a big trash can with only few valuable resources while 90 % represents spam, porn, dispensable information, parked or empty websites, lies and waste of time.
Actually an enormous necessity exists for easy accessible contact data.
Yellow pages are a good example for it.
.tel is the combination of yellow pages and Google - and this is only the beginning.
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by mikeseaton on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 9:38 am

GoTel wrote:You mean like the hundreds of millions of businesses that use yellow pages globally?
@GoTel - are you not aware that Yellow Pages owner Hibu (previously Yell) is today a massively debt-laden business, in perpetual crisis, that may well be wound up ?

Hardly the way forward for a future-looking business model !

If you have any doubt about this, click here and read about the reality of YP !

http://MikeSeaton.tel


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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by maxi on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 11:40 am

ntervu wrote:Personally, I believe that this discussion thread adds NO VALUE to the purpose of a TelCentric forum.
I think, that if Telnic would do one or two simple things, then tel-fans naturally would discuss another subjects. Because, I am sure, in general it is not important for most of tel-users, what are inside politics there.

If in nearest times Telnic would introduced Ads, pictures and video management directly from Telhosting panel, then for about a year people would have good subject to discuss - instead of making prognosis and speculations.

It would be good compromise for all.
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by ntervu on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 12:42 pm

Maxi...

I agree that the inclusion of these capabilities would add additional value to the feature set of the Pro .Tel platform.

Maybe we can all work on joint use cases to substantiate the critical business need by compiling data from our business efforts with active customers.

The end result would be a report sent to the Registry for review. We have done this before as group, mindful that it takes some effort to accomplish.

Consolidated design has proven helpful for credible positioning in the development lifecycle as stability, usage and costs are key determinants that help determine requirements prioritization.

At least for know we can leverage the Third Party tools. As an optional solution, I believe third party platforms can also evolve base on this same customer/user feedback.

Thanks





Last edited by ntervu on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : removed wordy fragments)


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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by GoTel on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 7:48 pm

mikeseaton wrote:@GoTel - are you not aware that Yellow Pages owner Hibu (previously Yell) is today a massively debt-laden business, in perpetual crisis, that may well be wound up ?

Hardly the way forward for a future-looking business model !

If you have any doubt about this, click here and read about the reality of YP !

http://MikeSeaton.tel


How someone financially runs there business has nothing to do with the point that was in contention.

The point was that literally billions of people seek contact information, and hundreds of millions of businesses pay for that information to be found in an organized directory.

If Telnic understood what the world does, that a clear place to find contact information is valuable, .tel would be a success already.

Google is a joke compared to Yellow Pages for contact information, and the world knows the value of an organized directory over Google.

That's the point. Google-garbage search results by Telpages is taking what people want, and then turning it into a garbage dump. Real smart.

You don't take what's good (a basic listing) and make it better (Telnames), but then avoid the better directory, by having none or garbage like Telpages. 1 step forward and 2 steps back is a major fail ... like .tel and telpages.

Take Telnames (a better listing) and then create a directory for those Telnames (a better directory) and together you have a real winner ... duh.
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by Tim Spears on Thu 04 Apr 2013, 9:44 pm

GoTel wrote:Take Telnames (a better listing) and then create a directory for those Telnames (a better directory) and together you have a real winner ... duh.
But why excluding millions of potential customers? Second, it should give away .tel domains to individuals and hope to make money on businesses instead.
Is Telnames really fine with only 8000 customers?
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by GoTel on Fri 05 Apr 2013, 5:59 am

Tim Spears wrote: ... Is Telnames really fine with only 8000 customers?

Quality before quantity is the key to .tel and directory success.

If you want quantity, you have Yellow Pages or the TelPages dump.

A better listing focus (Telnames) was the right start, but a better directory focus (Telnames directory) must be the focus once you have even 100 customers. If you don't, you are back to simply telling untruths like how "people find you in search results, etc." to try and get more registrations.
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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by mikeseaton on Fri 05 Apr 2013, 8:00 am

GoTel wrote:
Tim Spears wrote: ... Is Telnames really fine with only 8000 customers?

Quality before quantity is the key to .tel and directory success.
Quality plus Quantity plus User Feedback is the business model that actually works for a directory !

It's already been done successfully in the UK by Checkatrade (with online & printed versions) - I've used them several times to get work done by reputable tradesmen.

Additionally, many tradesmen put the Checkatrade name on their vans to give them credibility, so there is a very efffective advertising presence on the roads.

How many times have you seen a .TEL signwritten van whilst out driving ?

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Re: I believe I know what is going on

Post by GoTel on Fri 05 Apr 2013, 6:20 pm

mikeseaton wrote:Quality plus Quantity plus User Feedback is the business model that actually works for a directory !

Right, but in that order, so:

(Quality Listing / Quality Directory) before (Quantity of Quality Listings in Quality Directory) before (Constructive feedback from a Quantity of Quality Users)

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