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tel-4.com framing site


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tel-4.com framing site

Post by Telnic on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 1:28 pm

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)05-14-2010 10:47 PM

tel-4.com framing site
So, our little Panamanian (?) "friend" is at it again.


Google Search on "tel-4.com" and see the results that Google has now remembered. If you have a leading site, chances are your .tel traffic is going to his site. Something is wrong here.

In my opinion, he is framing and stealing content for the sole purpose of grabbing Adsense for himself in another ridiculous experiment at the expense of the .tel community.

What's your opinion?

Bunjie05-15-2010 03:33 AM




site:tel-4.com + your.tel or keyword

It will give you site only results.

I'm not involved in this issue, I'm just making it clear how to google about it

If he makes money off me there is not much I can do about it, it's a Streisand effect a primarily online phenomenon in which an attempt to censor or remove a piece of information has the unintended consequence of causing the information to be publicized widely, in more simple terms when people realise they can do that, they will and we can't stop them.

It's up to Telnic to work with google crawlers to identify where the .tel information came from and if that page is on a legitimate company website or just adsense theft and demote the theft to a lower rank.

Perhaps Telnic can add another hidden domain like the ad_ but for storing legitimate back links that google can check against, that will show up in our control panel as a list of back links to our site.

If you aggree to that back link you can flag it but if not you can flag it as spam or something else, and when google finds enough .tel websites saying a "site" is bad it will demote it or send it to the adsence admins to check.[/size]

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)05-15-2010 03:54 AM

The search is not for site:tel-4.com but for "tel-4.com" which shows domains like
Lots of members here will recognize their own domains being framed.

tony mayo05-15-2010 11:09 AM

One of my local directories showed up in this way in a Google alert this week. 
Mark has discovered another one above that I wasn't aware of.
Not from an IT background so don't understand what this guy is doing except it stinks of some form of plagarism. 
Dottel is getting dragged down by all this nonsense and it's not good for any of us trying to build and promote reputable .tel businesses.

Steve05-15-2010 01:08 PM

This has got to be illegal because otherwise we could all do this to google, yahoo, etc…

Telnic should be policing this more, no?

Total degradation of brand and ID….makes owning these things a joke. Once an advertising or marketing client see they have been high jacked its easy to envision them stopping their campaigns until the high jacking has been corrected; or perhaps not at all.

This is F@#$!@$


Steve05-15-2010 01:13 PM

I'd even be willing to allow this if Telnic would count CLICKS ON PHONE NUMBERS, EMAILS AND WEB LINKS.

We keep asking, we keep being asked by our clients and all we get are pointed towards TelStats that need to be run through a "reader" and at best tell us the number of gross visits. It won't cut it for web marketers in 2010 (1998 perhaps, but not today).

We need more tracking and reporting, before more policing at this point.

JLouisBiz05-15-2010 02:20 PM

Nice discussion. This matter has been already addressed on this thread:

If Mr. Mark Kolb or Steve are interested in my personal, individual, view point, than please read this first there:http://telname.com/forum/showthread....=private+proxy

Mr. Mark Kolb has a personal problem with me, as I have exposed him as website owner of third party tools which did not respect passwords of the individuals as personal information. This TEL-4.COM is nothing new, this was discussed already, and there was yet no conclusion to the discussion. 

The argument that "traffic" goes to our domain TEL-4.COM comes by Mr. Mark Kolb, who was first that was redirecting traffic based on TEL domain names, and TITLES onto his domain. That man is of double-moral.

This domain TEL-4.COM offers visitors to browse DNS information. 

As Bunjie said: TEL domain owners cannot do much to stop that. 

But before using arguments which apply to COM domains, please read the above thread, and make arguments based on TEL domain facts. 

For TEL domain directory owners, please read first your legal agreements. Thread is here:

Let us say, theoretically, that something IS illegal, and you come to the court, and you bring your OWN legal agreements, including that one of the registry, and you show that you have illegal directory on your TEL domain -- in that case, it is very questionable that you can claim any rights to display of DNS information on our TEL-4.COM domain. 

And then, if you come up, and say, this is illegal, you have to have in your hands some evidences of "what" is exactly illegal. As we do have evidences that there is nothing wrong or illegal. The judge would make the justice.

The proxy software, in its first, initial version is free, and here to download:

The new version is very efficient and it will be released soon.

As I promised, I think in the above mentioned thread, as soon as someone tells clearly it is illegal and how it is illegal, I will remove it. That promise stays.

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)05-15-2010 03:24 PM

No matter how JLB paints his own twisted justifications for what he continues to do, framing Adsense around your content or links for the benefit of others (although probably not illegal) is just plain wrong and totally disrespectful to the .tel community. If you feel this hurts your search fill out a Google Complaint. Hope Google catches on to this tactic soon. Although JLB appears to have programming knowledge, personally I have no respect for him. He should put his selfish skills to better use.

JLouisBiz05-15-2010 05:17 PM

You have all the rights to have or not have respect to anybody. And I understand your personal emotions, due to the fact that it was me exposing your insecure websites and your denial that passwords are personal information. 

But you shall not speak in the name of "community", first define WHO is the community, don't play as a representative or prove you "are" representative. 

In one thing, I agree with you, Google Adsense shall be removed from there, as we have other advertisers waiting to be placed, and paying more.

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)05-15-2010 09:09 PM

JLB, I've had my say. The affected community members can further debate what to do about your tactics. Google Adsense or otherwise, makes no difference as you still have despicable motives on how to steal traffic and revenue at the expense of others.
Goodbye on this topic from me.

JLouisBiz05-15-2010 09:26 PM


Originally Posted by Mark Kolb (Kprobe) (Post 8903)
JLB, I've had my say. The affected community members can further debate what to do about your tactics. Google Adsense or otherwise, makes no difference as you still have despicable motives on how to steal traffic and revenue at the expense of others.
Goodbye on this topic from me.

Sure, Mark, you are always welcome for discussion with me! Although this was already discussed on other thread, I don't mind you making new threads, as actually, what you want to prevent, you increase. 

I am sorry, but I have hard time explaining to you, that I am the first one to make actions to remove it, as soon as you prove there is something illegal and WHY is it illegal.

As when that comes, I will show you few other websites, which are then also illegal for using the proxy. And in that case many things are to be changed with TEL domain. 

And regarding your generalization and speaking out for TEL community, I did not see you being elected a president of "TEL community", further, if you have some matters to handle within that community, why don't you handle it? Why do you come to me?

So far, I am not member of "TEL community" as I really don't know the community. To be part of a group, one has to know WHO are they, right? I am member of this TELNIC forum, and this group of people. 

But I am genuinely here willing to know what is illegal. Not what is "immoral", or "questionable", as TEL domain proxy is surely questionable. That is why it is there.

Either show substantiate arguments, or after few weeks, open another thread arguing of TEL proxy existence.

P.S. We have already discussed that if I show someone's telephone number, or link to a website, Linkedin or his YouTube, that brings also traffic to THEM. On the TEL domain button there is a direct link to TEL domain, so that is a fact, showing, that I am not interested in traffic. And finally, I don't live on TEL domains, I have a life![/size]

Steve05-16-2010 11:10 PM

Shame, even the latest .Tel of the Week has been high jacked and wrapped.

Where will these confusing and degrading tactics stop?


Steve05-16-2010 11:15 PM

Ok, so it was an honorable mention, it's still a shame to be wrapped and attacked :-)

Props to!

JLouisBiz05-17-2010 09:19 AM

Let me mention one thing, you claim something is "wrapped, attacked, jacked, degraded, confused", but you show no substantial evidence of that.

Note this is OUR domain here:

So we don't wrap, attack, jack, degrade, confuse. 

The information on that domain is a phone number of a company. Further, I did not see that Nairobi.Tel belongs to the company which you are telling: EPCO BUILDERS. So you complain where you don't have a legal rights to complain.

P.S. Let me explain that, the system works in such a manner that if user adds -4.com on any TEL domain, the DNS information is than read from TELNIC DNS servers and displayed on OUR domain. 

For example, if you have FOR-SALE.TEL you simply add -4.COM to get http://FOR-SALE.TEL-4.COM and it is displayed over the proxy.

It works similarly like the Coral content delivery network, where you add .nyud.net on the end of any domain:http://praha.tel.nyud.net/

Steve05-17-2010 11:08 AM

Hey Dude, 

Do the same wrap-job to google.com or telnic.com or even nestle.tel if you are so convinced what you are doing is ethical & legal; let's see if their reaction would be any thing less than ours.

I dare you.

People like you just drag all of us down with these "tricks" and "shortcuts". Funny thing, you're not even making any money off it...just pissing people off. 

Guess if that is what you are into...

JLouisBiz05-17-2010 11:33 AM

I have explained everything in the above thread. Further, you still have not provided substantiate evidence that something is illegal.

DNS information is not at all same like website content of a Google.Com. Further, your comparison is also wrong, because Google actually uses other people's content to earn money.

Don't forget TEL has been advertised as "online presence without need for a website". So we do not mess up anything with your website, because supposedly you do not have a website. 

I understand you are emotional when some DNS content appears on other people's websites. I understand you want to express your negative feelings about that on a public forum, and if you ask me, you are always welcome.

That does not still show any substantiate evidence that something is illegal. So, instead of wasting your time, why don't you find out what is illegal? As we promised to remove it as soon as the evidence has been shown.

Steve05-17-2010 12:49 PM

again, just do it to a large brand and see what happens...

nestle.tel or bono.tel?

how about justin.tel, henri.tel or kash.tel?

it's not something you feel is wrong, so why not do it tot the likes of these names?

JLouisBiz05-17-2010 01:41 PM

Hello, did you understand how it works? You take any TEL domain and add -4.Com and you can browse the DNS information through our application.

For example http://justin.tel-4.com or http://nestle.tel-4.com

Steve05-17-2010 03:23 PM

got balls, i'll give you that, although I don't know how anyone could be happy about it, who own the original domain.

seriously louis, have at it, it's not really worth any further back and forth...however just because you can get away with something, because there is no law against it, does not make it moral or right.


JLouisBiz05-17-2010 06:24 PM

Well, if you think, there is no law, than please stop saying it is illegal.

If something is illegal it is against the law. 

Actually, I wonder why do you complain, as if someone's contact details are shown anyway, 
you should be happy. 

But also, the TEL-4.COM is just a programming script, it is changing, it is kind of a demonstration. 

As already shown, there are other projects where you can find your TEL domain displayed as well.

For example, nobody is forbidding you to make a new Google/Firefox extension by copying the existing, and by showing TEL domain WITH your advertising. If the existing Google extension is supported and promoted by TELNIC, there is no reason why someone else cannot make a new extension with advertising. Get it?

The basic problem is not my proxy, but lack of understanding of your TEL domain, and missing to read your legal agreements. 

I see that, that each TEL domain owner, including myself and all others, give the usage rights, not copyright rights, but usage rights to TELNIC. That is what I have found in my agreement.

Similarly like Twitter, everything you publish on Twitter belongs to you, but you gave permission to Twitter for other people to share it as they think and want. So, you have Twitter message published, but anyone can share it, comment on it, do basically whatever. You own it, but everyone can use it.

When you put your phone number and other contact informations on your TEL domain, the information is stored in the DNS. It is only displayed on the TEL website (yes, TEL domain has a website) by reading the DNS.

It is actually similar to storing it on a hard disk and displaying as a website. But TELNIC promotes that TEL domain is not a website in a classical sense, and it can be browsed by applications which are light applications and which are not web browsers, but rather DNS browsers.

What is encouraged by TELNIC is that people make applications to read the DNS TEL domain information. Application is for example iphone application, which a user downloads, and run. In the application, user can see your domain information, such as contact information.

If you also see advertising, well, what's wrong with it? You don't loose. If someone used third party application and arrived to your contact information, what's wrong with it? You should not have placed your contact information on Internet if you don't want people finding it.

Application is VOIP software phone application which browses someone's TEL domain DNS contact information and shows it on desktop software. It is quite clear that VOIP software phone company earns money on the calls, and they give option to browse TEL domains. The TEL domains are then not shown over browser, but over the VOIP software application. And they earn money. You help them.

But like you help search engines, third party applications or proxy maintainers to earn money (thank you), also they help you earn money. Because Google shows your domain in their index, so they help you market your domain. Third party application is there that your contact information can be found, so they help you.

Google or Firefox browser extension is just another proxy in the browser's window. When TELNIC publicly promotes Google or Firefox browser extension, that is substantiate fact that usage of TEL domain contact information by third parties applications is encouraged. Get it?

See this:

That is TELNIC provided script which is used for embedding TEL domain information into websites.

The Google/Firefox extension is using also third party domain:

And on such third party domains, YOUR TEL domain information is shown. The author of the extension has simply copied other people's extension and made the TEL domain extension. It is quite OK to copy that same extension into a new one, providing people with maybe better and faster proxy with advertising.

After some more months, more ideas will spring up, and your contact information will show on more third party domains. You have to expect that.

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Re: tel-4.com framing site

Post by Telnic on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 1:29 pm

JLouisBiz05-17-2010 06:25 PM

Forget about thinking in terms of "website" or private content. TEL domain content is shared content. As simple as that. Although I have not find nicely worded information about that, written by TELNIC, probably due to lack of time or legal advise, I have found enough public statements encouraging the usage of TEL domain information. 

I am not sure why do you mention .COM domain and if "I dare" doing same to google.com or telnic.com -- I am sorry, but .COM domain is not .TEL domain. 

You see, both domains, .COM and .TEL domain, they store the information somewhere. The .COM domain stores the information on their private hosting account. You can see the information basically only by browsing the .COM domain, and web server sends you the information.

The TEL domain does not store the information on a private hosting account. The information is stored in the TELNIC owned DNS servers, and all such information is accessible by ANYONE, from ANYWHERE.

The reason for the information to be stored in the DNS is that information is to be shared, offered for viewing by third party applications. So, you don't need a browser to access your TEL contact information.

I have several various small scripts showing TEL domain information in various manners.

For example we convert TEL domain information into RSS, like this: http://praha.tel2rss.com and we have much more in plan with the TEL domains. 

The remedy for your problem is that you have to understand that TEL domain is shared information, or that you show it is not, and the law which is broken by offering people to use the proxy application over OUR domain.

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)05-17-2010 07:00 PM

I said I'd be quiet and let others talk, but after reading this **** from JLB I have to write. As usual he only discusses what he wants people to think, not what the original topic was,
taking the parts of the argument that suit him and doesn't answer anything else thereby making others "look the fool".

There are no issues with using tel contact information when it is used as such, but tel-4.com hijacks the long tail subdomain and points it back to his site. 
All the links on tel-4.com that appear to be those of other tel owner, in reality point back to tel-4.com 

His site shows the last 10 Tels, for example, london-traffic-cars-2000.taxi.fulham.london.borough.tel however the reality is the url points to
the sole purpose of this is to send traffic to tel-4.com not borough.tel as you would think.

So don't be fooled by JLB, his purpose is to take your keywords and direct traffic to his domains. Simple as that. Google spiders have already indexed hundreds of tel domains by the long tail to send traffic to him. 

As I've heard elsewhere this is called "wrap and jack" framing.

JLB should just be honest in his purpose and explain why searches for praha.tel, etc end up and stay at tel-4.com, not skirt the issue through misinformation and self-centered justifications.


edit: this is such a waste of time

JLouisBiz05-18-2010 07:28 AM

Sure Mark, I understand your eagerness to explain my intentions, you must be kind of a psychic reading other people's mind.

But you are simply wrong, as everything about the proxy was explained. See above referenced other thread.

Sure, the directory links point back to the proxy links. So?

You still did not say what is illegal. So far you have explained your impression of my character.

And what justifications do I have? I am simply doing it. Call it as you like, and remember, I enjoy every time you write something.

But when will you show there is something illegal?

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