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New gTLDs in 2012 - Competition ?

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New gTLDs in 2012 - Competition ?

Post by Telnic on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 6:16 pm

mikeseaton01-12-2012 02:13 PM




New gTLDs in 2012 - Competition ?
 
It's always worthwhile keeping an eye on any upcoming competitors arriving on the scene - I'm not sure whether Telnic has a patent or ICANN-agreed monopoly on adding data to the DNS ?

The new extensions that would raise alarm bells would be .Call.Data.Dial.Mail

There's a useful site at http://www.newgtldsite.com set up to monitor the new Generic Top Level Domain (gTLD) applications being permitted in 2012.

The 2 pages at http://www.newgtldsite.com/new-gtld-list and http://www.newgtldsite.com/new-tld-list identify currently anticipated new gTLDs.

Mike Seaton

boracay.tel01-12-2012 09:20 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 19961)
I'm not sure whether Telnic has a patent or ICANN-agreed monopoly on adding data to the DNS ?


[size]
That's THE question.
viewing extensions laid out like that, I feel ".tel" is better than most.
It's ratified as a top level already. Key technology. Couldn't ask for much more.
Feel it's a winner.[/size]

mikeseaton01-13-2012 04:45 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by boracay.tel (Post 19971)
I feel ".tel" is better than most.
It's ratified as a top level already. Key technology. Couldn't ask for much more.
Feel it's a winner.



[size]
@Boracay

Does this mean you are back developing with .tel, after your decision to quit .tel for .mobi development ?

Just curious !

Mike Seaton[/size]

wibblenut01-13-2012 07:50 PM




I'm looking forward to seeing new TLD proposals that use DNS for other applications.

boracay.tel01-14-2012 10:10 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 19972)
@Boracay

Does this mean you are back developing with .tel, after your decision to quit .tel for .mobi development ?

Just curious !

Mike Seaton



[size]
Siimply taking a look here in the new year.
Nothing new to see.
No word or response from telnic re the mobile search shock we were dealt 
The 1 year overdue templates still nothing. Curiosity over. Check again in March[/size]

mikeseaton01-14-2012 03:45 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by wibblenut (Post 19974)
I'm looking forward to seeing new TLD proposals that use DNS for other applications.


[size]
So you believe Telnic don't have a patent or ICANN-agreed monopoly on adding data to the DNS ?

If this were to be the case that would open the floodgates to a well-resourced competitor looking at what .tel has done, pick out the key elements, review any mistakes made, and produce an alternative implementation that they market worldwide to their existing users and "Joe Public".

The extensions .Call.Data.Dial and .Mail are obvious candidates for this treatment.

It would be re-assuring if Telnic could clarify the situation re .tel's protection by patent and/or ICANN-agreed monopoly.

Mike Seaton[/size]

mikeseaton01-14-2012 03:59 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Jens (Post 19983)
The new .PHONE Top Level Domain will provide a dedicated home for all things telephony-related. We will be working with handset manufacturers, telcos and software providers to develop a range of innovations to enhance navigation and usability.

  • mobile.phone
  • home.phone
  • satellite.phone




[size]
Useful info in the post by Jens on the proposed new .Phone extension - see http://gtldrevolution.com/?page_id=25 andhttp://www.newgtldsite.com/dot-phone-tld-domain-names

I do think .Call or .Dial is a more attractive extension name since it always refers to an action taking place, whereas .Phone can refer to the action of phoning or to a site selling physical phones.

Still they obviously have grand plans for .Phone - it is very clear that TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE re .Tel's success in the marketplace - inaction is likely to lead to .Tel being overtaken by events such as those being discussed in this thread.

Mike Seaton[/size]

mikeseaton01-15-2012 02:21 PM




RightOfTheDot.com
 
We all know how difficult it can be to successfully launch a new gTLD extension !

Even after a successful launch if registrants don't renew (for whatever reason) and/or software developers lose interest and/or registrars don't see continued profitability in the new gTLD it can gradually fade away or just stay at a plateau level, consisting mostly of "defensive" registrations and domaining newbies !

So with all these new gTLDs coming up it looks like Monte Cahn (he founded Moniker - I've used them successfully for years - and then sold out for millions to Oversee.net) has hit the jackpot again with http://RightOfTheDot.com 

To quote from their home page:

"We’re a consulting group offering domain industry expertise to help you launch your new TLD and reignite existing Top Level Domains".

I am sure many of the new gTLDs (and maybe some existing ones) will be signing up to benefit from his proven expertise in domain marketing.

Mike Seaton

maximka01-15-2012 04:29 PM




----- deleted for privacy because of forum migration -----

wibblenut01-16-2012 02:31 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 19984)
So you believe Telnic don't have a patent or ICANN-agreed monopoly on adding data to the DNS ?


[size]
I don't believe so. I think they have a couple of US patents relating to search.

Quote:
[/size]



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 19984)
If this were to be the case that would open the floodgates to a well-resourced competitor looking at what .tel has done, pick out the key elements, review any mistakes made, and produce an alternative implementation that they market worldwide to their existing users and "Joe Public".


[size]
I hope it does - competition is a good thing. I bought into .tel because I loved the concept - I couldn't care less if .tel makes a billion registrations or .phone or .whatever.

If you believe you can identify a strategy to do better then you should raise some funds and do it yourself.

On the ICANN side of things I'm not sure how their new gTLD program would treat two similar extensions aimed at the same community and for the same purpose - would need to check the guidebook. But if you or anybody else wants to do it, then as a .tel registrant I will happily write you a letter of recommendation in support of your application.

Free market capitalism! DNS For The People! VIVA DNS![/size]

mikeseaton01-16-2012 02:33 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by wibblenut (Post 20018)
If you believe you can identify a strategy to do better then you should raise some funds and do it yourself.


[size]
That thought has crossed my mind, and no doubt those of others - but if I was targeting Single Point Of Contact users with the data readable by all and sundry it's not strictly necessary to use the DNS - a bit faster maybe, but the average Joe user or software developer doesn't care two hoots about where the data resides, only that they can access information when they need to quickly and easily.

I would rather work with what Telnic has created in .tel - which is why I bought into the concept both literally and metaphorically - it's just that I think there is a big danger, due to lack of progress in development and marketing, that .tel will be overtaken by events.

So yes I am hedging my bets, I have purchased a killer domain name (and all key defensive extensions that go with it) which I will be launching as a FREE Single Point Of Contact service this year.

But I really want .tel to succeed and work with it - so my software will link with .tel and extract the DNS information from it - providing an incentive for my users to purchase their own .tel and benefit from the ease of use of inputing their data via the CTH.

I don't need to raise funds for this venture - all the costs are already covered - and .tel users on this forum will be advised when registration starts.

Think of it as ".Tel Lite" - it will be what .tel was originally envisaged to be but has now become rather bloated.

It WILL be marketed extensively and I have a number of ideas to ensure the name of the software gets known by "Joe Public" worldwide a.s.a.p.

Mike Seaton[/size]

Blunderer01-16-2012 04:03 PM




So you're building a website to display .tel info from the DNS? Will that be an opt-in service for the originators of the data?

mikeseaton01-16-2012 04:55 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Blunderer (Post 20022)
So you're building a website to display .tel info from the DNS? Will that be an opt-in service for the originators of the data?


[size]
.Tel Lite (not its real name) will by its very nature be "opt-in".

.Tel Lite will allow FREE accounts to be registered in the format "xxxxxxx.com/username" and those who have these accounts will be able to specify the name of the .tel where the contact information is coming from.

I hope to be able to offer a simple Public/Private option whereby a selection against each contact field determines whether the data is displayed, with a password that can be given out by the user to personal friends which allows the Private data to be viewed - an excellent suggestion made in a recent thread on this forum.

I don't really want to go into any more details at the moment - but rest assured when the time is right I will make an announcement on this forum.

The whole idea is to use .tel's DNS function as a data repository - I expect other software developers will see the value of this in the coming years.

Mike Seaton[/size]

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)01-16-2012 05:43 PM




Mike, how will this encourage use of .TEL? If all you are doing is reflecting DNS data what's the advantage of xxx.com/username over username.tel and in fact about.me and others?
Mark

Blunderer01-16-2012 06:01 PM




.....Telpages?

mikeseaton01-16-2012 06:11 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Mark Kolb (Kprobe) (Post 20024)
Mike, how will this encourage use of .TEL? If all you are doing is reflecting DNS data what's the advantage of xxx.com/username over username.tel and in fact about.me and others?


[size]
I still believe in the "single point of contact" idea, but as you should be aware from my numerous posts I do not believe that .tel has succeeded in the marketplace, mainly due to lack of promotion worldwide to "Joe Public".

So I can keep "banging my head against a brick wall" about this or actively do something about it with development/marketing under my control - I have chosen to do the latter.

I really hope .tel is successful - I have a major financial stake in that outcome - and my new "single point of contact" software will enable .tel owners to just specify their .tel as the source data for contact information.

But as I said before I have got to the point where the only sensible business course of action is to hedge my bets about .tel.

I don't wait around forever - neither does "Joe Public" - the real question is whether "single point of contact" software is a solution looking for a problem ?

I hope not - Only Time Will .Tel !

Mike Seaton[/size]

maximka01-16-2012 06:25 PM




---------- deleted for privacy because of forum migration ----------------

mikeseaton01-16-2012 06:37 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by maximka (Post 20027)
Are you preparing to extract that information without consent of owners of these TELs - as user Louis makes it now with his sites and our TELs?


[size]
You obviously missed my post #14 above - reprinted below for you:

Quote:
[/size]



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 20023)
.Tel Lite (not its real name) will by its very nature be "opt-in".

.Tel Lite will allow FREE accounts to be registered in the format "xxxxxxx.com/username" and those who have these accounts will be able to specify the name of the .tel where the contact information is coming from.



[size]
Mike Seaton[/size]

dutchstreetdog01-16-2012 10:09 PM




Hahaha
Why dont you start a joint future with loui buisnes
p.s. 
Can i display my sexgids there?!

mikeseaton01-16-2012 10:39 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by dutchstreetdog (Post 20029)
Can i display my sexgids there?!


[size]
Yes Dutch, you will be able to apply for a user name at xxxxxxx.com and get the contact data at http://sexgids.tel displayed - unless of course I decide that sex and porn related .tels should be banned from xxxxxxx.com !

Mike Seaton[/size]
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Re: New gTLDs in 2012 - Competition ?

Post by Telnic on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 6:17 pm

dutchstreetdog01-16-2012 11:36 PM




Ok well thats good news then!
Lets see what you are upp to!
Thanks!

maximka01-18-2012 11:23 AM




---------- deleted for privacy because of forum migration ----------------

mikeseaton01-18-2012 01:59 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by maximka (Post 20043)
Exactly this thing had happened with PRO registry couple of days ago: Afilias expands market leadership with acquisition of RegistryPro


[size]
It's not impossible to imagine a situation, when the .tel investment seed money runs out, that Telnic could be taken over by a company like Afilias or, my preference, a major player like Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft or Skype.

With millions of existing users and deep development pockets I don't think there would be too many complaints on this forum - so I am quite happy if Telnic shareholders get a good return on their investment and leave it to the big boys to ensure that .tel becomes the worldwide success it is capable of being once the necessary impetus in development and in particular marketing takes place.

OK, time to wake up now, get back to work, and stop daydreaming !

Mike Seaton[/size]

mikeseaton02-22-2012 12:32 AM




New gTLD Timeline
 
For those who are following the introduction of the new gTLDs here is a useful link to let you know what's happening when - New gTLD Timeline

There is no doubt the new gTLDs such as .phone sought by gTLD Revolution will impact on .tel though obviously it is unknown the extent of this.

The areas of impact could be:

1. Competition re the "Dial/Email/Skype a domain" idea.

2. Competition re data in DNS (dependent on Telnic's patents, and their desire to, and finance for, enforcing them).

3. Competition re the "single point of contact, running on all devices" idea.

4. Domain investors deciding that the new gTLDs are a more desirable place for their investment dollars and letting their .tels drop.

5. Software developers getting frustrated at developing for the 300K (many unused) .tel market plateau and switching to the new gTLDs.

Without wishing to sound alarmist, Time Is Running Out for .tel to establish itself in the marketplace as the definitive single point of contact communications extension it was meant to be.

"Joe Public" needs to know about, desire and register .tel now - not next month or next year, but today !

It's patently clear from the 300K registration plateau that this isn't happening - has anyone got any ideas or do we just wait and hope ?

Mike Seaton

TELcp02-22-2012 11:48 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 20443)
Without wishing to sound alarmist, Time Is Running Out for .tel to establish itself in the marketplace as the definitive single point of contact communications extension it was meant to be.


[size]
Trying our best to achieve this.
It all depends on decisions made by other stakeholders.

Cheers![/size]

TELcp02-22-2012 12:19 PM




The new TLD .phone is definitely going to be a competition for the .tel and .mobi as more and more people have started switching over to smartphones for their day to day needs over the internet. By looking at the current figs of net surfers by smartphone users Vs desktop users indicates a clear picture of the mobile related extensions (TLDs). 

If the new TLD .phone can deliver more than the .tel or .mobi, of course it will succeed.

People wouldn't bother about the technology or how many patents behind the TLD or who provides it.
They all need is 1) to do things fast, 2) to do it with least effort & 3) to do it the cheapest way.

How many user of twitter or facebook, know who founded/invented them? 
How many of the users are bothered about the technology behind twitter or facebook?
But twitter and FB deliver what the end user wants. It is as simple as that.

Simon G02-22-2012 02:14 PM




From what I read about .phone it has no cause to give .tel reason to worry. It sounds more like a vanity gtld for people in the phone business. I will wait there application is made public. If it is submitted..
But i agree there will be an unforceable impact on all current Tlds/ whether it is a category G,S or CC


The fact of the matter is that .tel/pro/info etc all have a head start. In terms of marketing, market experience, search engine strategy and even developed sites. 

I dont think domains fit very well into the stereotypical product life cycle where it gradually increase from early adopters, rises peaks and declines. Domainers ( I am one as well) hamper the natural growth with our speculation. Creating a peak with the initial frenzy, which will die down after the initial spurt which in this case is three years to allow the natural growth of the product to continue. In my opinion tel will grow gradually but not as quickly as myself and others initially thought.

mikeseaton02-22-2012 04:34 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by TELcp (Post 20450)
People wouldn't bother about the technology or how many patents behind the TLD or who provides it.
They all need is 1) to do things fast, 2) to do it with least effort & 3) to do it the cheapest way.

How many user of twitter or facebook, know who founded/invented them? 
How many of the users are bothered about the technology behind twitter or facebook?
But twitter and FB deliver what the end user wants. It is as simple as that.



[size]
Totally agree with you TELcp.

It's results - delivered easily, attractively, and at a reaonable price, that matter to an end-user.

Facebook and Twitter also had the benefit of peer pressure to help them grow - they became sites to use because your friends were using them.

Mike Seaton[/size]

Kartoshka02-23-2012 01:01 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by maximka (Post 20003)
I begin to suspect that all these new gTLDs are created for one simple purpose - to get a profit at Landrush period. You invest 1 million $ in that application and etc., and after Landrush you get 10 millions $, the profit is 9 millions. What will be later with that gTLD, this is already is not of very much interest for you - you already got your profit. Before closing the business, you can again sell it for somebody else for some $$.

It could be a cheaper solution to get consultation about new gTLD creating from Vlad_tel.



[size]
i'm feeling uncomfortable to admit, currently this statement seems to hold truth. 
Was surprised to read Vladimir Shadrunov 's services, although industry-specific, but insulting. 
long life .tel[/size]

boracay.tel02-24-2012 07:05 AM




If I'm not mistaken vlad apparently left telnic not long after nadya. Still, .tel has a technical underlying "theory" that surely has more application than any of these new .tlds . I wish vlad all the best and don't feel short-changed or insulted. I'm just bewildered that .tel goes nowhere

mikeseaton02-25-2012 06:24 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by boracay.tel (Post 20485)
I'm just bewildered that .tel goes nowhere


[size]
Boracay, you're not alone !

How is the .mobi development going - are there any ideas from your .mobi experience you would like to suggest that Telnic could feasibily add to .tel to make it more developer attractive ?

Mike Seaton[/size]

SpeakingBadger03-14-2012 11:18 PM




The advantage that .TEL will always have is it on the DNS system and not server based... no other TLD will ever get that again. In fact many didn't want .TEL to get it in the first place. They thought the strain would be too much... BUT....

That is also .TEL's limitation too... it means to become technically advanced it has to deal with the limitations of not being on a server and it is limited to the services it can directly offer, so that it wont strain the integrity of the internet as we know it.

With that in mind, they do have to get these templates out that make them look more visually appealing both on the web and on phones and any other device... I believe they need to be able to have embed features where we can use pictures and video from other services and have it seen through a frame on our .TEL sites... I think the more then integrate, the better and it shouldn't actually hurt the integrity of the system since nothing is being stored on the .TEL itself... 

This also lends to the same shortfall. If those external services or servers have issues or are not automatically optimized to all devices connecting to the internet, and not just the WWW... that could lead to broken links or videos, pictures, etc... that do not render correctly... so the services they team up with to provide the extra features need to be sound. Or the services any users uses, needs to be monitored and probably controlled to avoid this shortfall. 

Nevertheless the more templates they can provide to render data in a more visually appealing way to meet various users of .TEL's needs, the better. I want to be able to do many things with my .TEL, but perhaps the biggest is to be able to have my profiles change, with a schedule... so for instance if I am working during the day, at 5 or 6 PM I want my .TEL to automatically change profile to my night time or evening off work profile.. and then on weekends have it change to my weekend profile, because I am able to set it on a schedule to do so... 

If I could make multiple profiles and then automate when the change, that combined with better templates would make the .TEL totally cool and unstoppable in the marketplace. I think from a marketing position I could sell many more people on how to use a .TEL... Can you imagine the possibilities??

...oh and one more thing, adding the ability to put a status alert would be cool too... and maybe allow that status alert to be updated from a twitter account... where it shows the last status update if that is what I want... but having a status would be very cool too. 

Yes, I dream too... and we'll have to see because I am unsure whether anyone looks at these ideas or even how to get anyone at .TEL to see the ideas to actually consider them....

dottel.net03-14-2012 11:46 PM




nice first post - welcome to the forum!

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)03-15-2012 12:29 AM




@speakingbadger, welcome. The more people voicing their opinions like yours, the more likely some will get implemented. Telnic reviews all posts here, so you've come to the right place. Embedding external content through iframes has been noted here in the past. I think there is no performance drawback to having them, afterall isn't adSense is a hidden iframe? As for status changes and profile switching, there might be a tool for that already - Twitter @2tel maybe? I do like your idea about teaming up with additional services that can provide seemless performance. With video coming next week and new templates next month (probably), we'll see a push for more changes and adjustments.
Mark

TELcp03-15-2012 03:28 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by SpeakingBadger (Post 20872)
I want to be able to do many things with my .TEL, but perhaps the biggest is to be able to have my profiles change, with a schedule... so for instance if I am working during the day, at 5 or 6 PM I want my .TEL to automatically change profile to my night time or evening off work profile.. and then on weekends have it change to my weekend profile, because I am able to set it on a schedule to do so... 

If I could make multiple profiles and then automate when the change, that combined with better templates would make the .TEL totally cool and unstoppable in the marketplace. I think from a marketing position I could sell many more people on how to use a .TEL... Can you imagine the possibilities??



[size]
Hi, welcome to the forum !

Changing profiles according to a pre set time schedule is possible via a third party app.
We have mentioned this in one of our previous threads/posts.
This, as a feature, has been tested successfully with TELcp, and will be introduced in the next version.

However, all the operations of CTH are not available to the third part developers through the TelHosting Client SOAP API.
Similarly, certain operations available through the API are not available at the CTH.
Due to this, tel Owner has to rely on both (CTH and third party tools/apps).

I hope one day either Telnic will have its own CTH with all the operations or let all the CTH operations be made available to the third party developers through a modified API.

Cheers![/size]

mikeseaton03-15-2012 03:22 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by TELcp (Post 20875)
....tel Owner has to rely on both (CTH and third party tools/apps).


[size]
Which is completely at odds with the way .tel is promoted and sold - as a simple domain extension which non-techie domain owners can easily update (from their phone or computer) via an easy-to-use CTH.

So something has to change - either stop giving high expectations to new non-techie owners, or (my preferred option) incorporate Mark's tools within the CTH.

In business if your message doesn't match the reality of your product or service sooner or later customers vote with their feet - and tell their friends !

Mike Seaton[/size]

TELcp03-15-2012 04:21 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 20881)
In business if your message doesn't match the reality of your product or service sooner or later customers vote with their feet - and tell their friends ! Mike Seaton


[size]
This is what I exactly wanted to highlight.
It is still not too late, to put the tel on the right track, even though the tel has been driven away from its original concept (which is the "single point of contact for communication").

Unfortunately, today the meaning of ".tel" itself is dead (to a certain extent) within the '.tel".
Some tend to see the .tel as a cheap alternative to the traditional web. This has to change first.
Everything will be fine when the .tel is sold and promoted as a "single point of contact for communication".
Otherwise, .tel has no future amongst the other emerging technologies of the traditional web.


P.S. The comments below the article at "DomainNameWire" gives a clrear picture how people see the .tel today.
[/size]


Geo03-15-2012 08:44 PM




Welcome speakingbadger... I echo your thoughts.

Imho, There shouldn't be just one proxy option to Tel domains... the proxy might well be handled by various third parties, and let Telnic be simply the registry... and overseer of the registrars and web proxies. Why not allow Tel owners to choose who to 'host' or 'display' their .Tel contacts? Third parties could charge for value added features, as well as offer free proxy service with some ads. Perhaps there need to be some basic or essential elements or standards for every third party to abide by contractually, but third party developers would work much faster and creatively than Telnic is able to do on their own. The Telnic team should focus on evangelizing .Tel domains, not tinkering with the proxy templates. Telnic should get out of the way of progress in this regard and take advantage of the great motivation of third party developers out there to join in and possibly monetize .Tel, as well as spread the word... Win / Win.

Imagine if Facebook could employ their own version of a Tel proxy - Facebook might be more interested in collaborating with Telnic. 
Telnic may be working their butts off, but this is too big and the potential too great to be handled through a single counduit of development. Look at how wordpress, joomla, and others have gone viral with thousands of template, theme, and plug-in developers; sure there are some glitches and incompatibilities that arise, but Tel owners can choose to relocate their Tel if they're not satisfied. I wouldn't worry too much about an inconsistent face to .Tel sites; I would worry more about .Tel sites going viral and taking the web by storm.


mikeseaton03-15-2012 08:57 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Geo (Post 20892)
There shouldn't be just one proxy option to Tel domains... the proxy might well be handled by various third parties, and let Telnic be simply the registry... and overseer of the registrars and web proxies. Why not allow Tel owners to choose who to 'host' or 'display' their .Tel contacts?


[size]
I agree, the alternative proxies at http://domains123.tel-4.com and http://boatfinder.tel-4.com regularly bring me FREE TRAFFIC which I can then monetise.

I have no objection whatsoever to other software being developed that generates me free targeted traffic, and throws in some extra link juice to the web sites listed on my .tel as a bonus.

Bit of a shame the originator of Tel-4 (Jean Louis) is still banned from this forum - he was the first developer to recognise the true purpose of .tel - namely populate the DNS for your .tel and then let others (including Telnic's proxy that we all currently use) display that content to the world.

Mike Seaton[/size]


Geo03-16-2012 03:44 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 20893)
I agree, the alternative proxies at http://domains123.tel-4.com and http://boatfinder.tel-4.com regularly bring me FREE TRAFFIC which I can then monetise.

...



[size]
I'm not just talking about third parties displaying .Tel dns records; I'm talking about what comes up when you type boatfinder.tel into your browser. I think it's good that Telnic has built a pretty decent facility by which to modify our .Tel domain records, as well as a pretty decent rendering of the .Tel domains in the browser; these should be there, but why limit .Tel to only what Telnic can come up with? Right now third parties can already provide facilities by which to update add, and delete our dns records including formatting features, but there's only one choice for rendering the .Tel pages on a browser; why not open that up too?[/size]
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Re: New gTLDs in 2012 - Competition ?

Post by Telnic on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 6:17 pm

mikeseaton03-17-2012 12:48 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Geo (Post 20907)
I'm not just talking about third parties displaying .Tel dns records; I'm talking about what comes up when you type boatfinder.tel into your browser.


[size]
Yes Geo appreciate that, but IMO it's a non-starter from Telnic's point of view.

Without wishing to put words in their mouth, and I would be delighted if they said they would actually consider doing this, the reason I believe it won't happen is that they would have to allow the nameservers stored at the registrar for the .tel domain to be specified as other than Telnic's own.

The moment they do this - unless it's some form of continent-wide deal like they did with TelChina - the doors are open for the .tel owner to set up their .tel as a conventional web site and completely ignore the whole DNS concept. After all, once you control the nameserver you can enter any IP address in it as the target web server for "mydomain.tel" to go to.

The only conceivable alternative would be for Telnic to continue using it's own nameservers but have approved "alternative templates" generated by third parties but served up by themselves.

However I think a registry would not want to get into this level of "hosting" activity and Telnic could also leave themselves open to charges of favoritism if they accepted some, rejected others, and the template owners started complaining to ICANN that a registry was not operating a level playing field. Altogether too much hassle for any registry to contemplate IMO.

So if you want to get an alternative to Telnic's display of your .tel DNS data you need to promote (i.e. link to, submit to search engines, etc.) a third party solution you are happy with - this is likely to be of the format mydomain.telxx.com - such ashttp://domains123.tel-4.com

Mike Seaton[/size]

Geo03-17-2012 08:02 AM




Mike, 

Thanks for addressing my point... this is quite intriguing, and I would appreciate your help really getting a solid grip on this issue.

I take it that a part of this issue has to do with the contractual or legal definition of .Tel domains as being distinct from other .tlds in that there should be no facility for the domain dns to refer to IP address, other than that of Telnic. Okay, I get that - no IP address. 

Now then I would like to know whether or not and to what extent Telnic itself is limited in terms of what it can offer or provide to its .Tel holders... is this defined anywhere contractually that I can see as a domain holder? If Telnic wants to extend its proxy features, such as enhanced template control options, further customization or new definitions of what can be stored in dns text or naptr records, do they need to get permission from Icann or some other body, or is that only up to Telnic's discretion? 

And if it is up to Telnic's sole discretion, then what are their priorities or principles in terms of what they will provide and how far they might take this? Speaking of unfair, why for example, would they allow exclusive customization options to TelChina, but not everyone in general? Does TelChina have their own version of the proxy server, like a clone with their particular enhancement, or is Telnic handling the enhanced feature via additional api call available only to TelChina domains to modify/store a background image record?

Much of the technical side of this is over my head; however, it doesn't seem to me to be a technical issue, but a matter of legal agreements concerning the unique nature of the .Tel registry as well as financial constraints on what Telnic can afford / justify in terms of development cost. 

Now, if the primary constraint is budget, then that's where I see potential to work with third parties who could provide some kind of white label branding of their own on .Tel sites via their own templates and/or other enhanced features that might / might not involve Tel api changes or be handled directly between Tel domain holders and their account with the third party. 

I'm not trying to criticize Telnic; I'm just trying to understand why my .Tel domains are limited and to offer my own vision for greater appeal and success of .Tel. I hope I'm not out of line with my probing, and I hope that I'm not seen here as a griper or an malcontent. I just like to think big and wonder how big Telnic is thinking or can think given whatever constraints they have to work with? Is this kind of discussion welcomed by Telnic? I would love to hear directly from Telnic on this. Thanks.

boracay.tel03-17-2012 08:14 AM




yourbusiness.tel is doing a bunch of stuff differently to the norm.
so a lot of answers to your questions right there?

Aled03-17-2012 09:11 AM




Geo,

Your comments are an interesting viewpoint, so don't worry about that. It's valuable feedback rather than complaining.

With regards to your TelChina example, they have produced their own CTH and proxies which they manage themselves. As mentioned previously in the forum, it's currently possible for any registrar to take ownership of their own version of the CTH and Proxy to do exactly what Telchina have done and offer their own unique display of .tel information in the proxy.

Simon G03-17-2012 10:24 AM




Aled, if I understand correctly. Telchina is not actually hosting the dns but actually just providing a Bespoke render of the proxy?

If this is the case would it be possible eventually to stipulate a default proxy provider(providing there were others available) to display each and every .tel
For example, I type Edinburgh.tel into my browser it looks up the URL and finds the proxy rather than telpages is "simonsdefaultproxy.com" it then resolves all the data in the DNA through said proxy.

Geo03-17-2012 10:48 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by boracay.tel (Post 20954)
yourbusiness.tel is doing a bunch of stuff differently to the norm.
so a lot of answers to your questions right there?



[size]
Yes, indeed... at the very least shows that Telnic is interested in exploring and pushing the envelope to new heights.[/size]

Geo03-17-2012 10:58 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Aled (Post 20960)
Geo,

Your comments are an interesting viewpoint, so don't worry about that. It's valuable feedback rather than complaining.

With regards to your TelChina example, they have produced their own CTH and proxies which they manage themselves. As mentioned previously in the forum, it's currently possible for any registrar to take ownership of their own version of the CTH and Proxy to do exactly what Telchina have done and offer their own unique display of .tel information in the proxy.



[size]
Thanks for replying Aled...

So I take it then that Name or Dynadot or DomainMonster or any of them could step up to the plate and make a deluxe version of what Telnic is now offering by default? Wow, I didn't know that - this obviously means that we need to raise the issue with our registrars. I'm impressed with that possibility, however, I wonder why no other registrar has done that yet... it seems like a good way to attract Tel owners to transfer their domains. I take it though that with respect to api, they would still be limited to what Telnic is currently providing through their own proxy? Could a registrar provide their own version as an option such that Tel owners could choose? How far theoretically could a registar take it in terms of uniqueness? I guess Telnic was hoping that by now there would be more work done by the registrars on this front, no? Maybe the payback isn't there yet? But as I suggested, this might be one way for a registrar to justify charging higher renewal fees, if perhaps they provided the means to update ads without need for running our own script? It would be very helpful to Tel in general if such features were easier to use by the average TELler.[/size]

dottel.net03-17-2012 11:00 AM




Aled - just for clarity, are you saying if a registrar setup their own proxy hosting facility they could extend how they see fit or are there still rules/regs they must conform to?

i.e. would it theoretically be possible for a proxy to offer much richer content/interaction not just from content pulled from the dns but complimented by additional content on their own webservers? effectively offering rich websites but on the .tel domain extension.....

or have i missed the point entirely?

dottel.net03-17-2012 11:01 AM




@geo our posts overlaped. i think we're asking the same qn

Cees03-17-2012 11:27 AM




Forum members et al should set up their own registrar, problem solved.

Geo03-17-2012 05:46 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Cees (Post 20971)
Forum members et al should set up their own registrar, problem solved.


[size]
This is one option, but it carries with it the additional burden of having to provide registration facilities, and that's going to be costly and awkward. The profit margin seems quite low for domain registration, and it's tough competition out there.

I would like to hear from Aled as to the limits of this concept. Then I would like to discuss amongst ourselves and figure out what we as Tel owners would consider the ideal enhanced feature / format set and then perhaps we could present such a package to various registrars and see what they say. An alternative might be to have one of the developers here who has the ability to do this themselves work with a registrar... maybe a deal could be cut. Or maybe Telnic could form such a partnership... the best option I think would be that the enhanced feature set is available to all Tel owners, because that would tend to have the greatest benefit for Tel in general. Somehow the registrars don't seem that motivated to do this.

How much would it cost to hire a developer to create what we want and sell it to Telnic?[/size]

maximka03-17-2012 07:10 PM




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Geo03-17-2012 07:57 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by maximka (Post 20981)
As I know, Telnic has his own developers and a designer. And I personally do not think that Telnic will buy whatever.


[size]
You're right; I hope I'm not offending or stepping on toes with my thinking out loud here. 

This situation is kind of unclear to me... on the one hand I feel like Telnic is trying to spin off such development to third parties; on the other hand, they have had to do the bulk of development so far just to sell Tel... and I'm torn between opening things up and having an active vibrant ecosystem of different developers bringing various options for Tel, like what has happened with Wordpress, and having a much more attractive central default product by Telnic which is available to all. I don't think Telnic wants to carry the whole development burden, but how to encourage others to take it on? Ultimately, we all envision a more developed ecosystem; but how do we get there from here? 

When I see yourbusiness.tel I feel inclined to pushing Telnic to do more sooner. The internet is such a rapidly evolving environment, in which those that keep up ( the Googles & Apples) thrive, whereas those that don't (the Yahoos & Nokias) struggle and lose market share. I do realize that development is costly and most projects go over budget and take longer than expected. 

Question is, will they come if Telnic builds it? If so, then better to build it sooner rather than later. I think that the third parties won't jump in until Tel is an obvious roaring success, and so it is up to Telnic development at this point to make it happen. But then we have some very motivated developers here in this forum who would probably like to chip in - how to make collaboration work?[/size]

mikeseaton03-17-2012 10:15 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Geo (Post 20985)
Question is, will they come if Telnic builds it? If so, then better to build it sooner rather than later. I think that the third parties won't jump in until Tel is an obvious roaring success, and so it is up to Telnic development at this point to make it happen.


[size]
Absolutely right Geo, it's what I (and several others on this forum with extensive internet marketing experience) have been saying repeatedly for months !

It's pretty clear that other registrars are unlikely to follow the continent-wide deal that TelChina has - the option has been available for at least a year or so with no takers so far.

What you have to appreciate is that TelChina is just that, .tel in China, whereas to a registrar .tel is a small (just 300K worldwide and looks like currently stuck at this plateau) extension amongst a huge number of extensions they handle.

Already .tel gives a registrar the extra work of having a secure (i.e. https) server for the TelHosting system which they have to keep up-to-date and generates them no additional revenue, whereas with any other extension when a registrar offers hosting it generates them extra income. This may well be the reason why GoDaddy, reputedly the world's biggest registrar, still does not offer the .tel extension at all.

So in summary - you can't bank on other registrars solving the problem of proxy development for .tel - they've had plenty of chance and have not (apart from TelChina) taken up the option.

So unless Telnic open up nameserver designation to the .tel owner (effectively doing away with the "Data in the DNS" concept) - which I don't believe they would ever do - then it comes back to third party proxies being developed which will be accessed via a web address such as http://Domains123.tel-4.com.

It's then up to the .tel owner which (or all) address to promote - I actually am happy to get free traffic to my domain sale sitehttp://www.Domains123.com from both http://Domains123.tel and http://Domains123.tel-4.com.

BTW this concept is not new - some of the most consistent free traffic I have had in recent years has come from entries inhttp://www.DMOZ.org - this is the same idea in that you submit your data to DMOZ which then lets other sites take copies (as distinct from reading the DNS with .tel) and create their own monetised version of DMOZ data.

If you are successful in getting a DMOZ listing (it's not easy and the site assessors are unpaid volounteers who you can't chase) then what you find within a few months is a steady stream of free traffic coupled with links (whose link juice moves your site up in search engine results) from DMOZ derivatives from around the world.

To encourage the development of alternative proxies Telnic did talk about releasing an API to allow easier access than the current reading of the DNS - this was something Henri was working on - not sure of current status as nothing has been mentioned on this forum, to the best of my knowledge, for months.

Mike Seaton[/size]

Aled03-18-2012 09:41 AM




Geo, Dottel.net,

The technical requirements for a Telhosting Provider can be found in this PDF, which should answer your questions -http://dev.telnic.org/docs/Tech_Requ...TelHosting.pdf. As mentioned previously, a Telhosting provider must be a registrar. It's not possible for them to just offer a proxy, all of the Telhosting elements are required.

Thanks,

Aled

dottel.net03-18-2012 10:02 AM




thanks for the link aled

Cees03-18-2012 11:04 AM




And here you will find some of the financial considerations, of setting up your own registrar.

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/re...ion/financials

maximka03-18-2012 04:52 PM




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mikeseaton03-22-2012 05:49 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by maximka (Post 21014)
Louis, who is the owner of that site, should add two things to his site.


[size]
If you could persuade Telnic to unban Jean Louis (username JLouisBiz) as suggested here - then you could put your point of view to him directly.

This forum could do with more who promote the "Data in the DNS - input once - read by all" idea that makes .tel unique - probably ahead of its time !

Mike Seaton[/size]

maximka03-22-2012 08:38 PM




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Re: New gTLDs in 2012 - Competition ?

Post by Telnic on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 6:18 pm

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)03-22-2012 09:20 PM




@maximka RE 'if Google do not show somebody's site, ..."
Unless the site owner doesn't expect to get Google Adsense revenue. Framing costs revenue as no owner ads appear. So this is not a positive service for those owners.
Mark

mikeseaton03-23-2012 12:55 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Mark Kolb (Kprobe) (Post 2112)
Unless the site owner doesn't expect to get Google Adsense revenue. Framing costs revenue as no owner ads appear.


[size]
I don't believe Jean Louis "frames" .tel sites - he appears to be reading the data directly from the DNS which is exactly what Telnic hope people will do - and is obviously why Telnic have never taken any steps to block Tel-4.com through the technical means at their disposal.

I still think there is a misconception by some on this forum that "MyDomain.tel" is your own web site - it never was, it never will be - it's just simply Telnic's proxy reading of the DNS data that you have submitted under the name of your registered .tel.

It took me a while to "get it" - I used to be a fierce critic of Jean Louis (when he was still allowed to speak on this forum) but finally the penny dropped and I suspect it will soon for others once alternative proxies start appearing.

I agree these alternative proxies won't be able to show AdSense on behalf of the .tel's registered owner since this would be against Google's Terms and Conditions (AdSense under your Publisher ID can only be shown on a domain where you are the registered owner) but the alternative proxies do offer both Free Traffic and Link Juice to the .com etc sites you list on them.

Maybe some of these new alternative proxies being developed will also be able to offer some extras not currently available through the CTH ?

I personally can't wait until software companies start accessing the Public DNS data (data stored as "Private" will remain just that) and propagating that information on the internet.

To me the purpose of publishing information is to get it read by as many potential customers as possible. If software programs read the DNS and publish data Free Of Charge that gives my business increased exposure (which equals revenue) without having to pay out for services such as AdWords.

Alternative Proxies and DNS Data Propagation - Bring It On !

Mike Seaton[/size]

maximka03-23-2012 10:12 AM




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Geo03-24-2012 04:52 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 21125)
I don't believe Jean Louis "frames" .tel sites - he appears to be reading the data directly from the DNS which is exactly what Telnic hope people will do - and is obviously why Telnic have never taken any steps to block Tel-4.com through the technical means at their disposal.

I still think there is a misconception by some on this forum that "MyDomain.tel" is your own web site - it never was, it never will be - it's just simply Telnic's proxy reading of the DNS data that you have submitted under the name of your registered .tel.

It took me a while to "get it" - I used to be a fierce critic of Jean Louis (when he was still allowed to speak on this forum) but finally the penny dropped and I suspect it will soon for others once alternative proxies start appearing.

I agree these alternative proxies won't be able to show AdSense on behalf of the .tel's registered owner since this would be against Google's Terms and Conditions (AdSense under your Publisher ID can only be shown on a domain where you are the registered owner) but the alternative proxies do offer both Free Traffic and Link Juice to the .com etc sites you list on them.

Maybe some of these new alternative proxies being developed will also be able to offer some extras not currently available through the CTH ?

I personally can't wait until software companies start accessing the Public DNS data (data stored as "Private" will remain just that) and propagating that information on the internet.

To me the purpose of publishing information is to get it read by as many potential customers as possible. If software programs read the DNS and publish data Free Of Charge that gives my business increased exposure (which equals revenue) without having to pay out for services such as AdWords.

Alternative Proxies and DNS Data Propagation - Bring It On !

Mike Seaton



[size]
Does storing data in DNS records mean that we have no rights to that data? Does a website have to encrypt its content in order to protect it? How is it that data stored on a host is protected, but data stored in DNS records is not? Just because people can scrape all the content from a website doesn't give them the right to do so. How is scraping DNS content any different? Some people may be happy to have their contact info copied all over the world ad nauseum, because it is good advertisement for them... others may use their Tel to populate a directory with useful info... in order to monetize their time spent collecting and inputting that data with Adsense or other ads. That data represents their time and effort and thought and creativity... to the extent that the Telnic proxy allows / enables.

Another distinction needs to be made here... There is a very big difference between websites that display .TEL data vs the Telnic proxy and what is rendered in response to typing a .tel address into a browser. 

I think that Google just presents a snippet, not a whole website... if someone wants to present a TEL search engine, then it is appropriate for them to republish a snippet, not the whole content, regardless of which technical means are employed to store and publish those records.

My 2 cents worth.

Edit: Mike, maybe I'm where you used to be, in terms of not 'getting it'... I realize that .Tel is not a website in the customary way, but Telnic's rendering of our DNS records in conjunction with the proxy container which Telnic provides us in effect works out to be a kind of website, controlled by Telnic with some creative and content leeway extended to us, with content ownership belonging to .Tel 'owners'. And this concept is further solidified by the fact that Google has extended Adsense and Search Engine placement to .Tel sites. In effect Google sees and treats .Tel sites as websites.[/size]

maximka03-24-2012 08:00 AM




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dottel.net03-24-2012 09:43 AM




...slightly off topic but I just noticed louis.tel is on auction at sedo and actually has a 200 bid

Cees03-24-2012 11:00 PM




Not owned by "Our" Louis though?

maximka03-25-2012 09:41 AM




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mikeseaton03-25-2012 01:35 PM




I've noticed quite a few really good .tels registered on the 23rd and 24th March 2009 that haven't been renewed.yet.

It may be that the domain registrants are holding off to see how impressive the new templates are and whether this is going to help .tel propel itself forward - or perhaps they just haven't got round to renewing - domain registrars tend to give registrants a period of grace after the expiry date to renew.

If these quality names really are going to be dropped then expect quite a lot of frenzied activity at the "pick-up party" in June when they become available for re-registration on a first-come first-served basis.

Mike Seaton

maximka03-25-2012 01:52 PM




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dottel.net03-25-2012 03:08 PM




if a domain is of value to you, then i would always advise contacting the existing registrant. 

if you wait for it to drop, there are several 'catchers' watching the lists and its unlikey you'll manage to get the domain. There were at least 7-8 different buyers at least years june drop party. I'm expecting the same attendees this year and hopefully a few more

TELcp03-25-2012 05:26 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by maximka (Post 21184)
That second variant have a risk that after receiving such letter the domain owner will change his mind and will not drop it nor sell it for reasonable price.


[size]
This is what happens usually.
And it has happened to me on several occasions on non-dottel domains.
So its the same with .tel.

But you will have to take a chance here or back order and wait until it drops (also taking the chance of loosing it unless it goes on auction, where it will be offered to the highest bidder).
Some registrars don't have auctioning, but fixed price on first come first serve basis.[/size]

maximka03-25-2012 06:26 PM




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mikeseaton04-23-2012 04:54 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Jens (Post 22560)
Hello Mike, What's the status on this project?


[size]
Jens, as I said I'm hedging my bets, particulary relevant of course since the discovery made in this thread

If the new template takes off, as I believe it will do given the right promotion and marketing (including the use of an Affiliate acheme to generate rapid sales), that will give us all the single page Tel Lite solution I was planning (i.e. back to the original .tel concept) and as long as the pricing is OK for users then I will not develop my own free Tel Lite solution.

It really is a killer TEL**.com name I have registered (including all competing extensions to .com to ensure no cybersquatting) so I will then use it to produce a .TEL application I have in mind.

That's as much as I am prepared to say now - I await the new template launch with great interest !

Mike Seaton[/size]

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)04-23-2012 05:40 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Jens (Post 22571)
TelDial ?


[size]
he he it's not TelCall.me or TelCall.us
Mark[/size]

mikeseaton04-23-2012 05:45 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Mark Kolb (Kprobe) (Post 22572)
he he it's not TelCall.me or TelCall.us


[size]
TelCall.com is actually for sale right now !

Not sure what the price is.

Mike Seaton[/size]

dottel.net04-23-2012 05:55 PM




Nope - let me know when we move onto other letters

Lol

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)04-23-2012 05:59 PM




Well if M is the qualification it could be a stand-in for Madness or Maniac or Motivated.
Mark

mikeseaton04-23-2012 06:12 PM




Getting back to the OP, I notice that ICANN's TAS application system for the new gTLDs has been taken offline for the last 11 days !

Check out http://www.icann.org/en/news and http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applica...erruption-faqs

Mike Seaton

mikeseaton04-23-2012 06:49 PM




Who needs a new gTLD with what .tel is now starting to offer ?

Just thought I'd give .tel a plug !

Mike Seaton
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Re: New gTLDs in 2012 - Competition ?

Post by Telnic on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 6:18 pm

mikeseaton04-23-2012 07:01 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 22573)
TelCall.com is actually for sale right now !

Not sure what the price is.



[size]
Price at BuyDomains is $6,400 - quite good value really - time to raid the piggy bank Mark ?

Mike Seaton[/size]

Mark Kolb (Kprobe)04-23-2012 07:35 PM




Nah, I still like the branding with .me and .us
Mark

dutchstreetdog04-23-2012 08:13 PM




My name starts with M
Are there any idears

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Re: New gTLDs in 2012 - Competition ?

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