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tel-4.com and mirroring without consent

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tel-4.com and mirroring without consent

Post by Telnic on Fri 02 Jan 2015, 11:59 am

dermod07-11-2011 08:05 PM




tel-4.com and mirroring without consent
 
Hi there

Has anyone else been hijacked by tel-4.com - mirroring your tel directories on their servers?

I've already emailed them to tell them to stop but I wonder if anyone else has any experience with them? Hard to pin down, it's seemingly run by someone called Jean Louis from Panama - who describes himself thus on his own tel, jean-louis-thetabiz.tel: 

"He travels often and calls himself cosmopolitan."

Dermod

telrific07-11-2011 08:14 PM




Here is the information concerning the individual as the registrant on multiple efforts.

Jean Louis was banned from the forum and has been on a rampage to discredit .tel since. (JLouisBiz)

Jean Louis has multiple websites acting in multiple capacities on the internet - here's one >> telsucks.info

Jean Louis
THETABIZ S.A.
Suite 458, Apdo 0832-2745
World Trade Center
Panama City
Panama
1

+507.5078322811

support1@thetabiz.com

You'll notice that Jean Louis still has an active .TEL at: thetabiz.tel

:rolleyes:

dermod07-11-2011 09:37 PM




Thanks telrific. I did a search on tel-4.com on the forum but it didn't show anything up. I was looking in the wrong forums, apparently. 

What a pain this guy is. I've reported the webspam on webmaster tools but by the looks of it Google aren't interested. It's disgraceful that Google gives prominence to tel-4.com over the original tel, never mind that they index it in the first place.

I do think he's right in one regard - telnic aren't on the ball as a company. Great idea, lousy follow-through and implementation. If Telnic were any good as a company they'd have sorted this out with Google a long time ago. This is damaging the brand and the service.

mikeseaton07-11-2011 10:51 PM




It can take a bit of time to get your head round the .tel concept - you are not creating your own web site when you input data via the CTH (or programmatically) - you are adding contact and other information to Telnic's DNS which is made available by Telnic to anyone to access and display without restriction.

Think of it a bit like when you add information to Twitter - whilst you are still responsible for any libellous comments you make - Twitter makes the content available to anyone (via their API and other software) to access and display without restriction.

Re what Jean Louis is doing:

1. It is 100% legal - reading from Telnic's open DNS and displaying data - he is not "framing a web site".

2. Having checked Google Analytics, I find it brings me traffic and also has the benefit of generating 1-way (by far the best) SEO links to the .com web sites listed on my .tels.

3. Has not in my experience lost me any SERPS click-throughs - whenever I have checked search phrases my .tel has ranked above that of the equivalent "tel-4.com" site.

4. Is the basis of Telnic's current usage of the .tel concept - which is to allow anyone to access the data in their DNS and display it.

So that's the reality - Dot Tel is a totally different concept to other domain extensions - it is a DNS-based system freely available to anyone to read and exploit - it just takes a little while to get used to stop thinking of MyDomain.tel as your own web site!

To summarise the situation - if you don't want your data displayed by 3rd parties - DO NOT PUBLISH IT TO TELNIC'S DNS!

Mike Seaton

tony mayo07-12-2011 09:45 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by dermod (Post 16193)
I do think he's right in one regard - telnic aren't on the ball as a company. Great idea, lousy follow-through and implementation. If Telnic were any good as a company they'd have sorted this out with Google a long time ago. This is damaging the brand and the service.


[size]
Couldn't agree more Dermod. I raised this issue months ago on this Forum and reported it to Google, but nothing has changed.
It is very disheartening.[/size]

telrific07-12-2011 05:02 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 16194)
... To summarise the situation - if you don't want your data displayed by 3rd parties - DO NOT PUBLISH IT TO TELNIC'S DNS!

Mike Seaton



[size]
I think everyone can agree with the open policy premise.

I think everyone can also agree that the phrase "in bad faith" has proven relevant.

:o[/size]

dermod07-12-2011 10:45 PM




I've no objection to data displayed by 3rd parties. I have objection to data in a mirror being prioritized by Google in their results. 

My objection is to how Google treats the mirroring site, a straight copy of a .tel that doesn't offer any added value, indeed just seems to offer rather pointless and obscure advertising to my directory users. 

Because, with any new .tel directory, an established domain will trump a new domain. And yet, it shouldn't when it comes to proxies. A proxy should earn its spurs, be there for a reason other than simply copying and framing data. If it's a simple direct copy and frame job, Google should treat it like dirt, and prioritise the original data on .tels. The original tels are the ones that contain our analytics code, our design (such as it is, which isn't much) but it does, surely, have the stamp of authority, because it's been put there by its owner. 

My objection is that Telnic and Google have not had a working breakfast and sorted this out together. 

I can imagine all sorts of ways in which data in public DNS systems like telnic's can be used creatively. My directory data could indeed be aggregated into other directories, geographically or thematically - bring it on, I say. Contact details are contact details - it benefits all my members if their contact details are broadcast far and wide. In the right context.

My issue is not about illegality - it's about Google ignoring the issue, and it's about Google not respecting the spirit of copyright, if not the letter of the law on copyright. And on some SERPs, tel-4.com results seem to be disguised as the original .tels - the -4.com is not visible at all in the URLs. That implies that Google are actively supporting Jean Louis' endeavours, or the principle of what he's doing - I've never heard of a TLD being masked like this before.

mikeseaton07-12-2011 11:01 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by telrific (Post 16207)
I think everyone can agree with the open policy premise.

I think everyone can also agree that the phrase "in bad faith" has proven relevant.



[size]
Telnic could I imagine - unless the DNS is exempt from this action by ICANN stipulation - block access to anyone they considered acting "in bad faith".

Companies like eBay issue an API access key - although this is not strictly the same since it is the DNS that is being read directly rather than an API.

The fact that Telnic have decided not to block access re-iterates the conclusion made in my post above - we really do need to accept this as the business reality of the .tel environment we have all chosen to work in. 

Mike Seaton[/size]

tony mayo07-21-2011 11:30 AM




Even Facebook (and Bing) is giving more authority to this plagarism.
[url=http://www.facebook.com/pages/Volkstech/127377753994305?v=info#!/search.php?q=volkstech foxford&init=quick&tas=0.42160951985685835]See second search result here. [/url]


Quote:



Originally Posted by dermod (Post 16211)
My objection is that Telnic and Google have not had a working breakfast and sorted this out together.


[size]
I second that![/size]

ynp07-25-2011 05:06 AM




I believe that data may be published and kept from 3rd parties by making it private. This is a great opportunity to require people to have their own .tel domain before telFriending them, which would allow them access to the private data.

tony mayo07-27-2011 10:48 AM




Getting Worse!
 
Anyone dismissing the damage this mirroring is doing to our directories is very misguided.

For example, Google is showing the correct header text in tel-4.com and a messy looking collection of keywords in the header of the .tel directory.

Just one small example below - it makes the .tel directory look like a third rate rip-off of the tel-4.com site. 

Has anyone else noticed this?

.Tel Directory

http://mayotoday.ie/images/dottel/directory2.jpg

Tel-4
http://mayotoday.ie/images/dottel/directory1.jpg

tel4rent07-27-2011 03:39 PM




HI Tony,

Unfortunately i have also noticed it for my domain name...actually noticed it long time ago but nothing seem to have changed even after so many pp raised the problem.

But it seems to happen only with the ones that were initially registered or indexed by tel-4 services long time ago. It is only my guess...i haven't noticed it with my other recently developed dottel domain. It needs to be confirmed.

Voila!!! hope something can be done.

Regarding the messy keywords:

- Bing and Yahoo seem to pick the proper field for the domain name. They actually pick the top description.
- Google is messy when it comes to describing a dottel name. Most of the time, they take the keywords. However, if you add a NOTE then it is a different story. Google actually collects that information instead of keywords.

But i must say that it is very inconsistent when it comes to google and most of the time, it is very UGLY....

Hope it helps

tony mayo07-27-2011 07:14 PM




Thanks tel4rent for your detailed response. Much appreciated.

Quote:



Originally Posted by tel4rent (Post 16443)
HI Tony,

i haven't noticed it with my other recently developed dottel domain. It needs to be confirmed.



[size]
The reason I posted today was that the directory I reference is new - so the problem persists.

I really do believe that it is not just in our interests but Telnic's also that they have a word with Google about getting this sorted out.[/size]

mikeseaton08-01-2011 11:17 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by tony mayo (Post 16445)
I really do believe that it is not just in our interests but Telnic's also that they have a word with Google about getting this sorted out.


[size]
Hi Tony,

It's not going to happen - since this would go against the Open DNS policy that is the foundation of .tel - please see my post above.

I really do think it's important that those who have chosen to purchase .tels understand the nature of the beast - MyDomain.tel is not your own web site - but Telnic's proxy reading of the Open DNS data that is available to all to read and publish.

I would imagine that somewhere in ICANN regulations is the stipulation that DNS data must remain freely available to all to read.

It doesn't matter whether any of us agree or disagree with this - that is the reality of the .tel domain extension!

Mike Seaton[/size]

ynp08-02-2011 04:41 AM




With regards to your last post Mike, isn't it possible to make data on your .tel domain private via the Privacy feature, which makes the data hidden except to those who the .tel domain has given permission to view via telFriending?
(I understand ultimately someone could be standing over their shoulder 'peeping', but excluding this it would seem possible to hide information)

One other strategy might be to insert notes within different pages of your .tel site stating something similar to 'Please make sure you are visiting (domainname).tel for up to date and accurate information. Not the prettiest, but maybe this would redirect people.

mikeseaton08-22-2011 03:30 PM




Here is a very good example of how Tel-4.com can actually benefit your SEO ranking and create additional traffic to your web sites.

All the links on http://b.siteindex.tel-4.com go directly to my web sites (listed by Telnic proxy at http://b.siteindex.tel) and the outgoing link juice for the page http://b.siteindex.tel-4.com will be divided up and allocated by the search engines to my sites.

So I get traffic to my sites that happens to arrive at http://b.siteindex.tel-4.com and I get link juice to all my sites that are listed on the Tel-4.com page.

That is why I have no problem with Tel-4.com - apart from the fact that it is doing what .tel was designed for - distributing information that has been input into Telnic's Open DNS.

Mike Seaton

TelRise08-22-2011 09:17 PM




Mike,
I have to disagree with you about the positive side of tel-4.com. Links - yes, but they are not that important or useful. At least one of my sites, which used to have over a hundred visits a day, has been displaced on Google by several of its (the sites own) pages, now incorporated into tel-4.com. 

Not sure whether his site is taking the traffic now, but it seems possible Google has penalized my own site due to duplication of content, and given the benefit to him. 

It's a pity that the owner of tel-4.com can't be more creative and build his own content. I do get clicks through to associated sites of course, but don't appreciate an uninvited middleman involving himself. 

It's fairly easy to get a dot tel ranked highly on Google and other search engines, and we really don't need the help of this chap.

mikeseaton08-22-2011 09:57 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by TelRise (Post 16965)
Mike,
I have to disagree with you about the positive side of tel-4.com. Links - yes, but they are not that important or useful.



[size]
TelRise, that's fine I don't mind people having a different point of view - that's what discussion boards are for!

But whatever you or I think about the pros and cons of Tel-4.com doesn't alter the reality of the .tel extension - to quote my previous post:

Quote:
[/size]



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 16194)
Re what Jean Louis is doing:

1. It is 100% legal - reading from Telnic's open DNS and displaying data - he is not "framing a web site".

2. Having checked Google Analytics, I find it brings me traffic and also has the benefit of generating 1-way (by far the best) SEO links to the .com web sites listed on my .tels.

3. Has not in my experience lost me any SERPS click-throughs - whenever I have checked search phrases my .tel has ranked above that of the equivalent "tel-4.com" site.

4. Is the basis of Telnic's current usage of the .tel concept - which is to allow anyone to access the data in their DNS and display it.

So that's the reality - Dot Tel is a totally different concept to other domain extensions - it is a DNS-based system freely available to anyone to read and exploit - it just takes a little while to get used to stop thinking of MyDomain.tel as your own web site!

To summarise the situation - if you don't want your data displayed by 3rd parties - DO NOT PUBLISH IT TO TELNIC'S DNS!



[size]
Mike Seaton[/size]

Cees08-27-2011 10:01 PM




Scraper sites
 
Quote:



Originally Posted by dermod (Post 16191)
Hi there

Has anyone else been hijacked by tel-4.com - mirroring your tel directories on their servers?

I've already emailed them to tell them to stop but I wonder if anyone else has any experience with them? Hard to pin down, it's seemingly run by someone called Jean Louis from Panama - who describes himself thus on his own tel, jean-louis-thetabiz.tel: 

"He travels often and calls himself cosmopolitan."

Dermod



[size]
Dermod,
Have a read of this! http://searchengineland.com/google-s...er-sites-90820

Is this the answer your looking for.[/size]

dutchstreetdog08-27-2011 11:04 PM




I whise loui would mirror mi a bit!
I can use some extra traffic
Vato Ive you read this, i dont see my domains!
Do you have mi blocked?
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Re: tel-4.com and mirroring without consent

Post by Telnic on Fri 02 Jan 2015, 11:59 am

mikeseaton08-27-2011 11:41 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Cees (Post 17096)
Dermod,
Have a read of this! http://searchengineland.com/google-s...er-sites-90820

Is this the answer your looking for.



[size]
Hi Cees,

Interesting article, but Tel-4.com is NOT a scraper site.

A scraper site reads a web page and then reproduces all or some of it under it's own URL.

What Tel-4.com is doing is what .tel was designed for - reading Telnic's Open DNS information and creating contact and other content for people to read on various devices.

Why do you think Telnic has never objected to this or taken any steps to prevent it ?

If anyone is not OK with Telnic's Open DNS being read then there is no point in owning a .tel - since that is the purpose of this TLD !

Mike Seaton[/size]

mikeseaton08-28-2011 12:06 AM




Quote:



Originally Posted by dutchstreetdog (Post 17098)
I whise loui would mirror mi a bit!
I can use some extra traffic
Vato Ive you read this, i dont see my domains!
Do you have mi blocked?



[size]
Hi Dutch,

Link To and/or Submit http://scheveningen.tel-4.com to the search engines and get the Free Traffic & Inbound Links from Tel-4.com that you want.

Mike Seaton[/size]

Cees08-28-2011 09:39 AM




Hi Mike,
Thanks for pointing out the difference, BTW I don't have a problem with Louis's work.:)

dutchstreetdog09-17-2011 04:07 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 17101)
Hi Dutch,

Link To and/or Submit http://scheveningen.tel-4.com to the search engines and get the Free Traffic & Inbound Links from Tel-4.com that you want.

Mike Seaton



[size]
Just now i see your post Mike
Thanks for the tip and i will ad it!
And i wil also give loui the sexgids as a bonus![/size]

maximka09-19-2011 05:05 PM




----- deleted because of forum migration -----

aaa10-03-2011 08:53 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by dutchstreetdog (Post 17555)
Just now i see your post Mike
Thanks for the tip and i will ad it!
And i wil also give loui the sexgids as a bonus!



[size]
Unreal!! BE AWARE 

Tel-4 will kill all the work you have put in, in terms of search ranking. I would not add anything to this site. As far as i'm concerned it's illegal to replicate ones work without their permission.

Mike - I admire what you are doing for dot tel, I agree with the majority of the things you post about. I don't think there is anybody who wants dot tel to succeed more than you. However you are way off the mark on this one. To say that tel-4 actually has seo benefits is total nonsense. 

This could actually topple dot tel as it's totally demoralising to the owner of the tel site. Why would you put all the work in for someone to reap the benefits?

For anybody out there, stay as far away from tel-4 as you can.

The correct proceedure in this situation is to report every single page that tel-4 has copied without consent as a seperate complaint to Google through your google account. Google know full well that this approach is illegal. It takes some time for Google to get rid of the copied pages - but eventually they will dismiss the illegal pages from their search results and then your legitimate results will appear again, patience is essential.

Hope this helps anybody who has been a victim.

I'm also surprised that no one from telnic has managed to sort this out on behalf of all tel owners. Especially as they have the relationship with Google. Telnic - get your act together and protect what is yours.[/size]

dutchstreetdog10-03-2011 09:40 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by aaa (Post 17954)
Unreal!! BE AWARE 

Tel-4 will kill all the work you have put in, in terms of search ranking. I would not add anything to this site. As far as i'm concerned it's illegal to replicate ones work without their permission.

Mike - I admire what you are doing for dot tel, I agree with the majority of the things you post about. I don't think there is anybody who wants dot tel to succeed more than you. However you are way off the mark on this one. To say that tel-4 actually has seo benefits is total nonsense. 

This could actually topple dot tel as it's totally demoralising to the owner of the tel site. Why would you put all the work in for someone to reap the benefits?
Btw before writing this piece you were not chewing the magic stick
For anybody out there, stay as far away from tel-4 as you can.

The correct proceedure in this situation is to report every single page that tel-4 has copied without consent as a seperate complaint to Google through your google account. Google know full well that this approach is illegal. It takes some time for Google to get rid of the copied pages - but eventually they will dismiss the illegal pages from their search results and then your legitimate results will appear again, patience is essential.

Hope this helps anybody who has been a victim.

I'm also surprised that no one from telnic has managed to sort this out on behalf of all tel owners. Especially as they have the relationship with Google. Telnic - get your act together and protect what is yours.



[size]
Well if this is true i geuss i give Mike the benefits of the doubt to not think the wurst of people
Thanks for your vieuw on the situation aaa
Btw were you nibbeling the magic dutch stick while writing this masterpiece?[/size]

aaa10-03-2011 11:05 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by dutchstreetdog (Post 17955)
Well if this is true i geuss i give Mike the benefits of the doubt to not think the wurst of people
Thanks for your vieuw on the situation aaa
Btw were you nibbeling the magic dutch stick while writing this masterpiece?



[size]
PMSL - No - What is dutch, stays in the Nederlands!![/size]

maximka10-04-2011 12:17 AM




----- deleted because of forum migration -----

mikeseaton10-05-2011 05:49 PM




There appears still to be some misunderstanding re what the .tel extension is actually about.

As previously stated .tel is NOT a conventional extension where data is hosted by the domain owner on their own (or rented) server - all data is hosted on Telnic's DNS Nameservers which are "open access" - MyDomain.tel is NOT your own web site but Telnic's proxy display of the Open DNS data.

There may well be an ICANN regulation which requires all DNS nameservers to be "open access" - since the DNS is essential for the internet to work - but even if there is no regulation Telnic are entitled to make the decision about giving "open access" to their own DNS nameservers. 

With reference to Tel-4.com I will repeat the FACTS regarding this: 

Quote:



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 17099)

Tel-4.com is NOT a scraper site.

A scraper site reads a web page and then reproduces all or some of it under it's own URL.

What Tel-4.com is doing is what .tel was designed for - reading Telnic's Open DNS information and creating contact and other content for people to read on various devices.

Why do you think Telnic has never objected to this or taken any steps to prevent it ?

If anyone is not OK with Telnic's Open DNS being read then there is no point in owning a .tel - since that is the purpose of this TLD !



[size]
Mike Seaton[/size]

aaa10-05-2011 09:56 PM




Mike - What part of copyright do you not understand?? Regardless of the technology, a persons work remains their own. Without the owners permission nobody is allowed to reproduce an exact copy of that work, which is exactly what tel-4 does. It's ILLEGAL and unethical.

Maximka - Tread carefully, ALED is on the war path!!

dutchstreetdog10-05-2011 10:39 PM




Thats right aaa i totaly agree!
When loui receive a fat claim lets see howlong his site stays in the air!
Regardless its open source Or dns Or whatever
What i make is mine And i am the boss

mikeseaton10-06-2011 02:25 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by aaa (Post 18031)
Mike - What part of copyright do you not understand?? Regardless of the technology, a persons work remains their own. Without the owners permission nobody is allowed to reproduce an exact copy of that work, which is exactly what tel-4 does. It's ILLEGAL and unethical.


[size]
I can't explain the true situation re .tel any clearer than I have already done in my post above - if you don't like the rules of the club you have joined normal practice is to leave the club !

Many programs are currently being developed to read and display content from Telnic's Open DNS - no opinions expressed on this forum are going to stop this happening or alter it being 100% legal and in line with Telnic's remit re the .tel TLD extension.

I won't be posting on this topic any further on this thread - but please re-read the quote below and try and appreciate the concept behind .tel:

Quote:
[/size]



Originally Posted by mikeseaton (Post 17099)

Tel-4.com is NOT a scraper site.

A scraper site reads a web page and then reproduces all or some of it under it's own URL.

What Tel-4.com is doing is what .tel was designed for - reading Telnic's Open DNS information and creating contact and other content for people to read on various devices.

Why do you think Telnic has never objected to this or taken any steps to prevent it ?

If anyone is not OK with Telnic's Open DNS being read then there is no point in owning a .tel - since that is the purpose of this TLD !



[size]
Mike Seaton[/size]

maximka10-06-2011 03:18 PM




----- deleted because of forum migration -----

aaa10-06-2011 06:58 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by maximka (Post 18057)
This is the rules of the club, by former Telnic's director Nadya

"As specified in the AUP, Telnic does not own the data – it is you as the .tel owner who owns and controls information in your .tel domain.If you own the copyright for that information and do not wish it to be replicated or republished elsewhere, you can add a copyright notice using a text field on your .tel, and/or linking to your full Legal and Privacy statement, to give you more grounds to file a DMCA request to Google against any violators."

http://telnic.org/forum/showthread.p...3659#post13659

It is written there in plain English, that ".tel owner .. owns and controls information in [his] .tel" . So that site tel-4 is nothing else as site, whose owner steals intellectual property from TEL-community members and breaks copyright law.



[size]

Completely agree on this point - it's very easy to understand. 

I personally have no problem with any person, bot or any other device reading the information that I published through my dot tel domains. After all, that is the reason I purchased those particular domains. What I do have a problem with is any person, bot or any other device reproducing an exact copy of the published work (for which I own the intellectual property) for their own benefit. That, in not just my own opinion is STEALING. 

Google also seem to think that this is unethical, why else (once requested) would they take tel-4' results away from their serp'. 

I would be intersted to hear telnic's viewpoint on tel-4.[/size]

your-tel10-07-2011 10:59 AM




aaa banned for sharing valuable information
 
Blimey - I'm very surprised to see that AAA has been banned for sharing good information regarding tel-4.com.

Who in the right mind is going to spend hours & hours of work populating a .tel directory to let people like tel-4.com mirror that work and reep the rewards in the search engine results.

I too have an opinion on this matter as I have also been a victim of tel-4. However, It will probably be best if I keep it to myself for fear of being banned.

So much for being an open forum !

maximka10-07-2011 11:33 AM




----- deleted because of forum migration -----

Aled10-07-2011 11:41 AM




To clarify, aaa was not banned for stating an opinion. The post for which he was banned has been removed. Debate and opinion are welcomed as they always have been on the forum, but forum members are expected to be courteous to each other.

your-tel10-07-2011 12:04 PM




Quote:



Originally Posted by Aled (Post 18095)
To clarify, aaa was not banned for stating an opinion. The post for which he was banned has been removed. Debate and opinion are welcomed as they always have been on the forum, but forum members are expected to be courteous to each other.


[size]
Aled
What is Telnics view on sites like tel-4.com mirroring our .tels without consent? I do recall you banned the owner from this forum to which he then set up tel-4.com and started to mirror lots of .tels in what seemed like frustration towards Telnic.[/size]

Aled10-07-2011 02:56 PM




your-tel,

Telnic's position hasn't changed from this stated by Nadya on this thread - http://telnic.org/forum/showthread.p...3659#post13659. This is your data and if you don't want it to be used in this way, put a copyright notice in your .tel. If this is scraping content, report the page to Google. If it differs dramatically from a search engine-type lookup and harvests the content for longevity and page rank, this should be something that Google can respond to.
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Re: tel-4.com and mirroring without consent

Post by Telnic on Fri 02 Jan 2015, 11:59 am

dutchstreetdog10-07-2011 05:34 PM




Is aaa banned?
And it was such a nice guy!

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Re: tel-4.com and mirroring without consent

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